August 22, 2003
https://egodeathyahoogroup.wordpress.com/2021/01/09/egodeath-yahoo-group-digest-43/#message2156 –
“”astral immortality,” a god possessing such a literally world-shaking and Fate-overriding power would clearly have been eminently worthy of worship: since he had control over and above the ironclad law of cosmic determinism, he would automatically have power over the deterministic astrological forces of Fate, heimarmene, or Necessity determining life on earth, and would also possess the ability to guarantee the psyche or spirit a safe journey during the intense mystic altered state through the deterministic celestial spheres during mystic ego death and rebirth.”
October 5, 2003
https://egodeathyahoogroup.wordpress.com/2021/01/09/egodeath-yahoo-group-digest-46/#message2334 –
“an experiential astral ascent“
October 7, 2003 – Ideal Posting Defining Astral Ascent Mysticism
First dedicated post about the mytheme: Su: “Astral ascent” – October 7, 2003 – https://egodeathyahoogroup.wordpress.com/2021/01/09/egodeath-yahoo-group-digest-47/#message2348 –
“The Hermetic astrology of around 250 CE is similar to that of the Renaissance.”
Perfect, but doesn’t explicitly state that Hermetic writings / Theurgy associates Heimarmene with the sphere of the fixed stars.
Can we assume that Theurgy places the fixed stars in the 8th sphere like other brands of cosmology do?
We especially require Hermetic texts explicitly stating or directly unavoidably implying that the highest level at which Heimarmene is located or based is the sphere/level of the fixed stars.
In the Theurgy version of spiritual ascent cosmology, is Heimarmene in the Ogdoad (8th cosmic sphere level), as it is in Gnosticism, Mithraism, and Christianity?
The Egodeath theory 
https://theses.gla.ac.uk/81873/
This is a many page thesis on Ideas of spiritual ascent and theurgy from the ancients to Ficino and Pico. I only skimmed it and of all things found that the author quotes Hanegraaff in her thesis. I was looking to see if Heimarmene in Theurgy is in the Ogdoad and ran out of time. Thought I would send it your way.
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tried Find:
ogdoad 8,
fate,
fixed: 1 n/a
heimarmene 0.
no subheads? long
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I skimmed and didn’t find it either. Looking up Theurgy elsewhere and didn’t find it. One site mentions that the first recorded use of the term theurgy
is found in the mid-second century neoplatonist work – the Chaldean Oracles. Because I started back to work time is limited. So I’m not sure if it could be found in Chaldean Oracles. Hope you can find it.
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https://www.nickfarrell.it/the-universe-of-the-chaldean-oracles/
According to the article, the Chaldean Oracles was written by a Theurgist in the 2nd century. Mention of the fixed stars is under the heading of Chaldean Oracle’s Universe.
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https://www.jstor.org/stable/25093210
An abstract by John Conlee titled, The Meaning of Troilus’ Ascension to the Eighth Sphere – regarding the epic poem by Geoffrey Chaucer, titled, “Troilus and Criseyde.” Cyberdisciple may have more details than what’s in this abstract.
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One last mention
http://platonic-philosophy.org/platonica.php?pg=Theurgy
Under the Chaldean Ritual of Philosophic death, the main Chaldean rite includes- First the lower soul, the vehicle of the soul, is purified and strengthened through the use of material rites, including the use of stones, herbs, incantations, prayers, magic wheels, and lustrations.” “Following the rites of purification, the Theurgist elevates his soul on the “rays,” of the sun in the central Chaldean sacrament. The initiate is ritually buried, in imitation of death, in which the elements of the body dissolves, releasing the soul. The head was left uncovered as this was the seat of the rational soul. The initiate would draw in the ,”rays of the sun, “inhaling” the “flowering flames” that come down from “the father.”
The above smells of authentic entheogens. All of it does no matter where you look.
I believe all of those procedures include authentic entheogens within the rites and rituals. You just have to read it all through the body to get the feel of it.
The Egodeath Theory makes sense of it all.and that’s what matters.
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https://cswr.hds.harvard.edu/news/2021/04/19/video-reasonably-irrational-theurgy-and-pathologization-entheogenic-experience
So sorry if you’ve already seen this and even posted it. It didn’t look familiar to me.
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this might be equiv of his non translated article Psychedelica
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what is “planetary constellations”?
Hanegraaff is intent on covertly silently moving the fixed stars (carrying heimemene) down from standard level 8 down into planetary wandering stars levels 1-7. What Hermetic texts justify this imaginal construction?
“surrounded by utter silence while watching the planetary constellations. She won’t see them just as physical planets. She will see them as deities”
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https://www.renaissanceastrology.com/fixedstars.html
This is just one more site that places the sphere of the fixed stars above the sphere of the planets.
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thx for page w transcription of lecture. i saw vid but not page. interested in Charles, his Harvard’s series seems cool.
The phrase “planetary constellations” was perfect proof Hanegraaff is lost in space, direct self-contradiction & nonsense.
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After reading Hanegraaff’s presentation in the video you are referring to, it becomes clearer as to why he tries to broaden the word entheogen and it’s not due to rationality. But rather from the irrationality of reading manuscripts written and informed by the mystic altered state and then trying to interpret them through literalism by slicing them up into bits and pieces.
In his broad view of mish mash he fails to bring in an understanding of concrete evidence, helpful for life. which points to the origins of religion for example, such as Christianity, as it relates to the ordinary world. He tries to separate techniques mentioned in living ancient manuscripts from authentic entheogens, by slicing them in two with his scalpel of analysis.. He sees the mystic altered state in black and white, the same color as text. There is no color in his hyper-rational mind of analysis. And although black and white photography is beautiful, it becomes nothing without the soul awakened into spirit’s interpretation of life.
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What’s most troubling is in Hanegraaff trying to appear as an authority on ancient manuscripts and altered states, and no matter how brilliant he is,, he is not an authority as long as his interpretation skills are limiting.
The story that Hanegraaff tells his audience in the presentation includes the character Thessalos who experiences an apparition – seeing the God Asklepios. Thessalos asks Asklepios advice about a prescription. Asklepios then instructs him on “the true way of using the power of plants.”
Hannegraaff then skips over the rest of the story by saying that the “rest is technical treatise about astrological plant medicine.”
Now this is not to say that other techniques may not be used with authentic entheogens – with authentic entheogens being the dominant force.
Keep in mind, that Asklepios instructs Thessalos on “the true way of using the power of plants.”. He does not say the true way of using the power of fasting, or the true way of using the power of hyperventilating or the true way of using the power of chanting, or the true way of using the power of drumming…… etc. What Hanegraaff states is that Asklepios instructs Thessalos on the “true way of using the power of plants.” Something to remember.
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Hanegraaff is playing both strategies – asserting psychedelics as much as the hidebound Establishment permits him to; and also asserting the decoy insincere baloney that he probably knows is fake rubbish cover story pretext: a strategem, transparently obviously so. Is he willing to assert what I will challenge him on:
I’m not asking you if Imagination exercises or cave meditation or drumming can or may or might or could – I’m not asking you that.
I’m asking Hanegraaff & the Academics: do your nondrug methods in fact actually cause the efficacious right kind of effect at the right intensity like Psilocybin actually does (not “can”, but rather, typically does actually cause): controlled at-will imagination cave drumming does not in fact produce ego death cyb ctrl seizure, personal control overpowering & violation, such as to force and drive the transformation of mental worldmodel of the Source & origin of all of your personal control thoughts?
Do your alleged other techniques give you a no-free-will / loss of control/ undermining of control-power experience?
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What are Hanegraaff and academics really afraid of,?
Hanegraaff is becoming a Charlatan.
Doesn’t he see that?
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they are TERRIFIED of being Allegro’d. petrified hamstrung & handicapped, they put it on me to point out that the emperor’s new clothes dont fly, to say what they are not permitted to say
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In the meantime, he’s capitalizing on the restrictions. Charlatan.
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I would like to think of Wouter Hanegraaff as a man who truly believes what he is writing due to his lack of experience with authentic entheogens and altered states. And even if he has experienced an altered state, he has not been able to make sense of it by mapping it to anything substantial. He is not a good representative for entheogens at all, even the ones he conjures up.. I keep saying over and over, if only they would learn the Egodeath theory and Entheogen theory of religion, they would understand, they would be able to make the connection. And maybe one day he will.
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https://sufipathoflove.com/the-ascent-of-the-soul-through-the-spheres/
Confirms the fixed stars in the 8th sphere
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I see that the link, ‘the ascent of the soul through the spheres’ is the type of link that can spur on New age spirituality.
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Salman Rushdie, the author of The Satanic Verses, was attacked and possibly stabbed in the neck on a lecture stage in New York. No word on his condition.
Not to impose fear onto anyone but there is a greater understanding of and respect for the risk factors involved in publishing books with controversial content.
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“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist. ” Salman Rushdie
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Hanegraaff, whether he realizes it or not, deprives Heimarmene her righteous place for life to experience an authentic dress rehearsal of to die before thou dieth.
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yes I am analyzing the half truths in religious mythology in this book hermetic Spirituality with full success for example the text correctly say the lower part of the wise person is dominated by fate but the higher part of the wise person dominates fate
So it is not precise enough when we say is the person subject to fate
it’s kind of a trick compound question: the answer is yes partly, and no partly.
for example, when we return to the ordinary state of consciousness, we experience again freewill autonomy, and prior to that, we solve “the” problem of fate by acknowledging that it is real – not by denying it all together! we must sacrifice to the fate demons! honoring them! the texts say! not denying that fate is real and dominates the lower part of the finished initiate. per p92-93 in Hermetic Spirituality book, i have clarified my core theory to reconcile and refine Hanegraaff’s statements to make them cohere and match how the mind actually develops, not by wholesale “gates” , but rather, a PART of you passes through the FILTER(s). Persephone’s winnowing basket.
earlier in this today’s show I found that there are two different problems of fate, a sequence.
first, we have “the” problem (#1) of fate: that denying fate causes control instability/seizure; and we solve that by affirming fate.
then after that, the second type of problem with fate is, that now we have realized we are subject to fate, we object to that reality.
that distinct, second, subsequently discovered “the” problem of fate is solved by returning to the ordinary state of consciousness and saying that the spirit portion of me – but not the lower portion of me – is freed from fate, by virtue of my daily experience being shaped in the form of autonomous freewill independent controller agent
honor the right place of heimarmene (Level 8; Ogdoad), do not deny Fate altogether else instability of control in the loose cog entheogen-generated state. (he used the sensible word ‘generates’, not the silly locution ‘psychedelics “occasion” mystic experiencing’ – no one talks like that, inauthentic fake way of talking)
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Yes, “the spirit portion of me but not the lower portion of me is freed from fate by virtue of my daily experience being shaped in the form of autonomous free will independent controller agent”..
That makes it very clear.
It’s good to have just the “lower of me,” on earth, (without being made separate from the spirit of me,) not freed from fate, as “the spirit of me” can guide us through all of what can occur no matter what.
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It’s unclear whether Hanegraaff suppressed Fate (heimarmene, no-free-will) in a wholesale, dissociative, psychologically repression/ suppression/ dissociation/ dualistic way, or whether his model (of mental development as expressed in Theurgic mythic analogies) integrates fatedness well enough for transcendent mental health.
p99 asserts that gnostics/theurgists had nondual integration of their lower mind (which they held to be fate-dominated) & their higher mind/”spirit” (which dominates fate).
The bad news is that personal control thoughts remain forever subject to and controlled by fate , as much as you may brag about how happy you are that the spirit portion of yourself dominates over fate, it’s kinda not saying very much, except that during the subsequent ordinary state of consciousness, we spend the rest of our lives experiencing in the form of freewill self-control power, together with being fully enlightened.
so for what it’s worth, our mere spirit portion, only – but not our personal control-thoughts – dominates Fate/ Eternalism/ block universe non-controlled control-thoughts and escapes being controlled by it.
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I always feel that the term “mystic altered state (what you say is considered fake talking) is Authentic entheogen generated experience (altered state) and differentiates itself by that term from other actions (altered states) which Hanegraaff tries to call ‘entheogen generated’.. plus I love the term mystic altered state and don’t see it as fake talk.. I see the term mystic altered state as the most genuine experience in the world.
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not sure which passages – i wrote that scholars/academics writing “psychedelics OCCASION mystic experiencing” is artificial stilted unnatural way of talking that authentic real people don’t use, it is an affectation by scholars
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“So for what it’s worth. Our mere spirit portion but not our thoughts dominates fate/Eternalism/blick universe non-controlled control thoughts and escapes being controlled by it”
It’s worth alot Michael, and not so mere at all as it exists in a spacial place where clarity of sense can blossom into words.
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I understand what you mean and I apologize for going off into tangents. It’s just that I can’t deny what comes to me, what I feel and sense and what I love. No one else needs to agree but I like to apologize to you anyway, Michael, because I know that your intellect far exceeds mine and from there you might not understand my quirky thoughts. Thank you so much for all that you share. Your fans are so lucky as we all learn so very much from you. . I’ll taper off..
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another affectation is “alternate states of consciousness”; no authentic real person talks that way. fake academese.
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Loose cog entheogen-generated states it is.
I still want to place authentic in front of entheogen to differentiate it from any of his broad ideas.
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Maybe one day if you have time and for the sake of loose cog entheogen- generated state, you can list all the affectations related to that.
If you look up pronunciation of the word entheogen, you will hear different pronunciations. So even that can vary.
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“Hanegraaff writes about writers trying to cast a spell enchantment on the reader”
And isn’t that what Hanegraaff does by trying to force upon the reader a depleted content of the word “Entheogen.”
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